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Interviews with A&Rs at Virgin Records
Interview - Ferdy Unger-Hamilton, A&R at Virgin Records UK- Mar 24, 2005
“Talent is everywhere nowadays—there’s a very healthy band scene in England”,
… says Ferdy Unger-Hamilton, former A&R at Island UK. Artists he works with include Keane (UK No.1), Gabrielle (UK No.1) and Portishead. He was awarded No.1 on the UK Top 40 A&R Chart of 2004.
How did you get started in the music business, and how did you become an A&R?
When I was seventeen I worked for Brian Lane, who at the time managed Yes, amongst others. I learnt a bit about music from him, and I worked out what A&R was. I also toured with a group for nine months and after that got a job as a scout at Chrysalis Music. It didn’t last very long as I didn’t get on very well with the boss and after six months he gave me the sack. But I was determined to stay in A&R, and I got a job at Go! Discs. After a few months there I found Gabrielle, and in the same period I found Portishead as well.
Gabrielle’s first single, “Dreams”, went to No.1, and then we put out the Portishead album, “Dummy”, and it all started to happen from there. Go! Discs was then sold to Polygram, and John Kennedy and Roger Aimes at Polygram asked me if I would like to carry on running Go! Beat and do a joint venture with Polygram. I decided I wanted to stay with my artists, and so I carried on running with Go! Beat as a satellite label to Polygram, using Polydor as its marketing company which began my relationship with Lucian Grainge.
I worked with Go! Beat for seven years until the end of our contract when I decided to sell my part of it to Polygram, because it had become something of an outdated business model to have a small company through a major. I spoke to Lucien, the chairman, and we agreed that it would probably be best for me to go and see Island, another Universal/Polygram label. I got on with Nick Gatfield at Island very well; we had a similar vision of how we wanted things to be. So I folded Go! Beat into Island. Shortly after I got there I found Keane, and now we’ve just signed a new artist, Tom Vek.
What experiences have helped develop your skills as an A&R?
In different ways you learn everything on the first things you do and in Gabrielle and Portishead I couldn’t have had two more different approaches. With Gabrielle I was very involved in choosing the collaborators, the style of music, the songwriters, I even co-wrote some of her songs.
With Portishead, I couldn’t have been less involved. They delivered me the album and I just said thank you! They played it to me along the way, but I just allowed them to do what they do, and at the end I heard a fantastic record. Those two experiences at the beginning were so far apart from one another that I just worked out what needed to be done. There’s no rule and sometimes the approach just is, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.
If you were an artist, by what criteria would you judge an A&R and label if they were offering you a deal?
The important thing is to have a picture of what it should be in the end and to see if they share your vision. You should know where you want to end up and make sure that the A&R person understands your sound, your songs and your look. There’s no point in signing to somebody who wants you to be someone that you don’t want to be.
Would you consider the A&R’s track record?
Their track record is something that you would obviously look at, but you can’t assume that somebody is an idiot just because they haven’t done anything yet. Still, if someone has got a track record, then you know for a fact that they can do their job right and you take less of a chance in those cases.
What artists are you currently working with?
Keane, Gabrielle, Portishead, and Tom Vek, our new signing. He’s a very talented young man from London.
How did you come across Keane?
I first learned about Keane through a pretty big industry buzz; it wasn’t like finding them under a rock. In this case the hard thing was getting them more than finding them. I started at Island almost at the same time as their buzz was blowing up and the UK was very excited about them. I read a big piece about them in the Sunday Times and I heard “Everybody’s Changing” on the radio, which was initially released on the independent label Fierce Panda, and I went to see a show and they were brilliant.
What attracted you to them?
I heard five songs and every one of them was brilliant. They were “Everybody’s Changing”, “This Is the Last Time”, “She Has No Time”, “Bend and Break” and “Somewhere Only We Know”. Their songwriting was incredible and Tom Chaplin’s voice is amazing, and, again, they had a fantastic live show with lots of energy. As soon as I heard them I wanted to sign them and had I not been able to see them live, I would have tried to sign them anyway.
Several labels were bidding for them, so why did Keane choose Island?
We just got on and they knew that I didn’t want to change them in any way. I thought that if we could make an album like the five songs I had heard, it would be a good job, and I think that appealed to them. I think the most important thing was that I liked them just as they were. They also liked the Island “ethic” and were similarly impressed with our partners in the U.S - Interscope.
Besides their music, what else was involved in getting them into a position where labels were making offers?
Adam Tudhope, their manager, had done a really good job of making sure that they were always around on the live scene in England and as a result, by the time they were signed they had a good name as a band. They also built a good buzz at press, radio and TV, before they signed the record deal, they had signed a publishing deal with BMG Music, with Caroline Elleray, who has a fantastic reputation. BMG also did a great job in helping develop the band.
What does your work with Keane involve?
In the case of the first album it was just about realising that they knew exactly what they wanted and what they wanted to sound like, and making sure that they found the right persons to help them achieve that sound. When we signed them, they had a lot of songs for their album, “Hopes and Fears”, so it was devilishly easy. We’re about to make a new album now and this time they have to write a new collection of songs.
What was the key to breaking them?
A lot of the work had already been done and radio knew who they were. They had a big audience and a lot of people knew about them. What we needed to do was to release the singles that could reach the people who hadn’t heard of them, the second wave of people that may not be the tastemakers and may not be in touch with new music. We needed to get more popular TV channels, radio stations and press. The middle media, if you like.
While we were doing that we were trying to keep the image of the band authentic and not sell it through too fast and too hard. We had some ideas that it was going to sell and we wanted to make sure that we didn’t cheapen the image or the brand that the band have.
How do you find new talent?
It’s everywhere now these days. It’s a very healthy band scene in England, but I’m trying to look further than that. You can find good stuff on the Internet and press has always been a favourite: I found Portishead by reading about them in a magazine.
Do you accept unsolicited material?
Yes, I do. I get five to ten CDs a week and I try to listen to all of them. I encourage artists to send me their demos and I encourage them to write to me by e-mail as well.
How ready-to-go must the artists be?
As an artist you want to make sure you get your point across, musically. You’ve got to have at least one or two songs that sound good and you have to hit people with your best shot; I’d rather listen to one song than many to base my decision. You don’t have to have an album, but if you do have one, then the best way to get a deal is to start making noise yourself. I’m more likely to hear about things that way. Try to release a record yourself. Get some press and get something going.
Is it important that they already have a fan base?
If it sounds good, we’ll sign it. It’s great if they have a fan base, but it’s not necessary.
What kind of buzz makes you take note of something?
Clever people telling me it’s good. It could be a friend, a guy in a record shop or someone in radio who I know likes good music. If somebody smart tells me to check something out, I’ll do it. Stephen Bass (from Island) is a genius at this!
How important is it that the artists you work with are also songwriters?
Someone has got to take care of the songs, that’s the thing. If an artist has got a lot of talent outside of songwriting, then you need to find songwriting talent. If there are certain things that the artist can’t do, such as writing songs and producing music, then he or she has to be aware of that and be content with letting somebody else do it, although I have only signed artists who write their own songs.
... to read the continuation of this article, click here.
Interview - Nick Burgess, A&R at Virgin Records UK - Dec 18, 2003
"Lawyers especially will drive deals to completely unrealistic figures."
Nick Burgess is a senior A&R manager at Virgin Records in London, UK. He represents pop/rock band The Thrills (UK platinum) and singer/songwriter Gemma Hayes.
Here he describes how Virgin worked to break The Thrills, the issues A&R representatives face, the significance of A&Rs in artists’ careers, and so on.
How did you get started in the music business and how did you become an A&R?
I was the guitarist in a band called Gluebound, who were signed to EMI Records from 1995 to 1998. However, I realised that it wasn't going to go very far, and I was keen to work in A&R. So, I got on a train to London and landed some work experience at an independent label called Gut Records. Initially, it was just for one week. I walked through the door and told everyone that I wanted to do A&R and then I bumped into the A&R guy and one evening we talked about music for two hours; the next day, the chairman came in and said that he’d been told by his A&R guy that they needed to hire me. I was there for two years and then Virgin Records offered me a job. I've been here for eighteen months and was recently made senior A&R manager.
What experiences have shaped your skills as an A&R?
Being in a professional band is definitely the most valuable experience I've had. Having been through the processes of getting a record deal and touring makes my job so much easier, because I know what it feels like to be on the other side of the fence, where the music industry isn’t really understood. I was with other bands all the time back then, so I'm used to going into rehearsal rooms and just hanging out. This, I hope, gives me a natural ability to talk to bands and to get on their level.
In practical terms, I know the whole experience of writing, recording, mixing and mastering a song. I can use a mixing desk and I know what can and can't be done. As far as understanding the practicalities of A&R is concerned, being in a band is the best education one can get.
As an A&R, making an album is the steepest learning curve. I was lucky because my very first signing, The Thrills, went platinum in the UK. So far I’ve only experienced success, but I'm sure I'll sign a band that fails and I'll learn a lot from that. I think you probably learn a lot more from failure, because when you’re successful you don’t really question things.
The Thrills are a great band, so everyone at the label was behind them, but the label also put a lot of pressure on me to deliver a record that they could sell, especially the marketing and promotion departments. Everyone had an opinion, but I learnt how to deal with them, as I learnt how to deal with the band and the producers, and how to get the best out of them.
I had disagreements with the producer, the mixer and the band, but you just have to balance those clashes and since it’s about creating you have to deal with it delicately. It's quite difficult politically, as you have to make sure not to fall out with these people, while at the same time you have to make sure that your opinion is heeded. It’s important that you stand strong, that you get your argument across, even when it gets intense and the members of the band are saying that you're wrong. When they all argue against you and you have no support, you have to stay true to what you believe in—that’s what A&R is.
You're not only doing it for their favour, you're not doing it for your own cause, because at the end of the day the job is to make the best record that can possibly be made at that moment in time by that band. And whatever that takes, whatever decisions have to be made, if you don't do your best and you don't fight for your cause, you have to live with that for the rest of your life. If you don’t want to argue and instead yield to their wishes, you know that the band will turn around later and ask you why you let them do it. You can’t win that way: you just have to be a good arguer and give credible, concise arguments, even when everyone is shouting you down.
What styles of music do you focus on?
I'm mainly into great guitar music. That’s the base, my love, and it has been so all my life from the age of nine. Guitar music transcends a lot of different styles, from Neil Young, Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin to At The Drive-In, The Beach Boys and James Taylor. I do enjoy nearly all genres of music as well if the songwriting is good. I love melody in music
I strive to sign acts that I think are going to be around for twenty years, that transcend time. The more you are today, the more you will become yesterday. If you're very now and of the moment, when you’re no longer current you can quickly become irrelevant.
Which acts are you currently working with?
I’m working with The Thrills and a singer/songwriter called Gemma Hayes from Ireland (click on artist or song names to listen to Real Audio files – Ed.). I didn't sign Gemma, she was signed by the managing director here, Philippe Ascoli. But he's become too busy, so I'm looking after her second album. Gemma is amazingly talented; she's 22 and she looks absolutely stunning. Her first album was produced by Dave Fridmann and it did really well. We got a Mercury Music Prize nomination, but it didn't really have any hits on it, so it was difficult to get a public face to it.
For her second record, we're working really hard to give her a better shot at radio. In the UK at the moment, as anywhere in the world, radio is really important to sell records and, because we didn't quite have enough radio songs on her first record, I'm striving to make sure we have a couple of really good radio songs on this record.
How did you first learn about The Thrills?
I first heard about them from a friend of mine who is a promoter and works at a concert venue in London. The band were looking for gigs in London and had sent him a CD, and he asked me if I wanted to hear it. I had only been at Virgin for two months, so I was really desperate to find something. I went down and he played me one track, “Santa Cruz (You’re Not That Far)”, in my car stereo and I just loved it. I thought it was so different to anything I'd heard and so musical.
So I got the number of their manager, phoned him up, went over to Dublin the next week and saw them rehearse. There was a real vibe, they had a great identity and really good songs, so and I invited them to London to play for Virgin in a conference room we have. They did a gig here for the whole of the Virgin label and everybody loved them.
Were they ready to go?
They had 90% of it. All the songs for the first album were written, except one. We saw that they had the songs and that their identity was really strong. Their playing needed a lot of work, but that just comes from experience really. They're very smart lads, they knew what it took to be a great band and they worked and worked to make sure they were the best band they could possibly be. After twelve months they were a completely different band than the one I signed.
What did your working relationship with them involve?
I did a lot of work on the mixing of the album to make it sound right. They are doing a lot themselves as far as perfecting their craft and their act on stage. They've done 130 gigs this year and they really have become a great band. That comes from confidence and from the public buying their records and giving them the confidence to go out there and perform to the best of their ability. I don't think I have that much influence on them in that respect. Some bands you do have to educate and I've advised them on other matters, but I had no need to turn them into a better band than they knew they had to be anyway.
What was instrumental in breaking them in the UK?
They were fortunate to have support from pretty much all media straight away, that is radio, press and TV. You need all of them: it's very difficult to break an act with just one out of the three. It happened because there are not many bands in the world who write great songs and have a strong identity. They were a priority act for Virgin and we worked really hard to give the media what they wanted. We had strong NME backing, which was nice to start off with, then Radio One, Virgin Radio and independent radio backed us, and then MTV and MTV2 were straight onto it.
They also toured and toured from the minute we signed them and they’ve built a fan base by being a great live band. The timing of the project had a lot to do with it as well. The campaign is almost textbook: we started in November 2002 with the first single, “Santa Cruz (You’re Not That Far)”, which was a limited edition, 1,000 copies, and then we released two more singles while we gradually exerted more media pressure. We had no video for the first single, we did a GBP2,000 video for the second single, “One Horse Town”, and for the third single, "Big Sur", we did a proper video because we knew that that song was going to be the crossover hit.
Then we did the festivals, culminating at Glastonbury in front of 25,000 people, and the next day, 1 July, we released the album. In its first week, it sold 50,000 copies. The Glastonbury TV coverage and the media coverage leading up to Glastonbury was a perfect way to launch an act. Of course, we needed hits too and we had two Top 20 hits in that period.
How do you find new talent?
There's a million and one ways that you can find new talent, but the longer you do this job the easier it gets, because the more industry people you know who respect you, which they do if you and your label prove that you can break acts, the more people come to you with music. I have very good relationships with most UK music publishers and with a lot of music lawyers, managers, and owners of rehearsal rooms and studios. It's just about making as many contacts as you can, so that when a hot new artist comes on the scene, you're one of the top three names on the list. When new artists ask whom they should see, you want them to be told, "Go and see Nick Burgess at Virgin, he's really good”.
You have to create a strong brand for yourself and for your label. My hope is that I'm going to be one of the names recommended. That is very important, along with keeping your network up to date with people who are constantly on the look-out for things. I don't go to that many gigs; I only really go to gigs when I know beforehand that the music is good or when someone I know strongly recommends it. Too many bad gigs can effect your morale and perspective.
Do you accept unsolicited material?
We do accept it, but I rarely get to listen to it. Unless if it's to my name: I listen to everything that’s sent to my name. I get about 20 to 30 a week. We get much more, but the stuff that is just addressed to Virgin goes into a pot that various people here look after.
What do you look for in an artist?
Songwriting of the highest quality is essential, but a strong identity and a positive attitude to the business of music is important too. Historically, sex appeal has also played a major role in reaching an audience, whether it’s Elvis or The Strokes. It feeds on natural human instinct
... to read the continuation of this article, click here.
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